Wed, 29 Aug 2012 14:14:14 GMT | By Felicity Hannah, writing for MSN Money

How would you tax the super-rich?

As Nick Clegg calls for the wealthiest to do more to pay down the deficit, MSN Money asks exactly how that might work…


Nick Clegg has called for a temporary tax on the rich (© Image © Stefan Rousseau – PA Wire)

Nick Clegg has called for a temporary tax on the rich

Nick Clegg has reignited the debate over whether the wealthiest in the UK should pay an extra emergency tax while the country battles the deficit.

He's argued that the richest people can best afford to contribute to reducing the deficit, rather than penalising the poor with further cuts.

"If we want to remain cohesive and prosperous as a society, people of very considerable personal wealth have got to make a bit of an extra contribution," Clegg told the Guardian.

This would be a time-limited tax while the country deals with "a longer economic war rather than a short economic battle", he explained.

Some commentators have argued that the Lib Dem leader is actually waging 'economic war' on the wealthy. But what are the options for taxing the rich more and exactly how much money could they raise?

Mansion tax
"Nick Clegg's comments are actually about the Lib Dem's mansion tax, he's trying to reignite the debate," says Richard Murphy, tax expert and director of Tax Research LLP.

That idea certainly remains one of the party's policies. The Liberal Democrats fought for a mansion tax on the most valuable homes to be included in the last Budget. They wanted an annual levy against the value of homes worth more than £2 million.

It's hard to work out how much a mansion tax might raise. Tim Knox is the director of the Centre for Policy Studies and a staunch critic of the idea. He's argued that a mansion tax set at 1% of the value over £2 million would raise 'just' £1 billion a year - around 0.2% of total tax revenues.

That's not that much when it comes to deficit reduction. So how else could we squeeze more from the wealthiest few?

A wealth tax
"One simple way would be quite simply a wealth tax," suggests Murphy. "Some countries have tried it, for example, 1% of all wealth/holdings over a certain amount is subject to tax each year. The difficulty at the moment is that the very wealthy are so good at hiding their assets.

"Personal wealth in the UK is in the trillions, so it's not hard to imagine that a wealth tax would make a pretty big hole in the deficit."

And Clegg is not the first person to suggest such a thing. Murphy cites Greg Philo, professor of communications and social change at the University of Glasgow.

He has long called for a one-off levy of 20% on the wealthiest 10% of the population, as a way to clear the national debt and an alternative to the cuts.

Total personal wealth in the UK stands at £9,000 billion, of which the richest 10% own £4,000 billion, according to the Glasgow Media Group, of which Philo is research director. The professor has argued that a 20% tax, graduated so the very richest pay the most, would raise £800 billion.

The Glasgow Media Group highlights a YouGov poll from 2010 that suggests that almost three-quarters of the population would support this one-off tax.

Richard Murphy thinks another option would be for the country simply to improve its existing tax system so that the rich find it harder to avoid paying.

"We need to go back to the tax system we've got and make it work," he insists.

Tackle tax havens
The most obvious solution would be to tackle the money held by the wealthy in tax havens, suggests Murphy.

"We should look at how we can open up these havens to make sure the money hidden there is subject to tax again. There's an enormous amount: it's estimated that $21 billion (£13 trillion) is hidden in tax havens by world's wealthiest people. That's one way to tax the rich more."

So how much might the UK see from a clampdown on tax havens? Well, again it's hard to work out the total - after all, the money is hidden.

However, back in 2009, Murphy was asked by the BBC to give an estimate as to the amount lost through tax haven activity.

After extensive research, he estimated that £18.5 billion a year is lost to the UK exchequer as a result of tax havens - and that was three years ago.

While he admits that not all of that could be recovered in tax, Murphy argues even retrieving part of it would make for a fairer system.

End avoidance through companies and loopholes
One common way to reduce tax liability is to shelter income in limited companies. Murphy argues that this could be restricted by taxing the profits of such companies as the personal income of the owners.

He also suggests that there's plenty of tax relief that only exists to give the wealthy a break, according to Murphy. "We need to limit the allowances for relief, limit the mechanisms by which the wealthy can avoid paying tax."

Such mechanisms might include loopholes like venture capital trusts and higher-rate charity reliefs.

Vote in our poll:
An error occurred while trying to display the data. Please try again later.

What method would you choose to get the super-rich to pay more tax?

Thanks for being one of the first people to vote. Results will be available soon. Check for results

  1.  
    3 %
    Impose a steep mansion tax
    39 votes
  2.  
    20 %
    Wealth tax (yearly tax on all holdings over a certain threshold)
    200 votes
  3.  
    24 %
    Tackle tax havens
    235 votes
  4.  
    38 %
    End avoidance through companies and loopholes
    375 votes
  5.  
    15 %
    I don't think the super-rich should pay more tax
    149 votes

Total Responses: 998
Not scientifically valid. Results are updated every minute.


Taxed by envy?
Bernard Jenkin, a senior Conservative backbencher, believes Clegg's suggestion doesn't come from economic consideration, but simple jealousy.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "If the politics of envy made a country rich, we would be a very rich country."

So is this just the poor lashing out at the rich? Is Clegg pandering to unpleasant emotion rather than economic sense?

Murphy suggests that the deputy prime minister may be guilty of "gesture politics", but adds that there's nothing unfair about taxing the rich more.

"At the moment, the rich in the country have the lowest rate of tax apart from those on £10,000. It's not fair and we should correct that inequality. Secondly, who can actually afford to pay the cost of getting us out of recession? The wealthy.

"Finally, you have to remember that the wealthy don't get wealthy by themselves, society lets them do so. It's nothing to do with envy; it's about making a fair, equal and just society where everyone has an opportunity to get on."

Is Nick Clegg right to suggest a wealth tax? Would it be fair? Are we all in it together? Share your opinions with other readers in the comments below.

116Comments
30/08/2012 09:17
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Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten

comes to GBP100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it

would go something like this:

 

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay GBP1.

The sixth would pay GBP3.

The seventh would pay GBP7.

The eighth would pay GBP12.

The ninth would pay GBP18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay GBP59.

 

So, that's what they decided to do.

 

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the

arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are

all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of

your daily beer by GBP20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just GBP80.

 

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the

first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.

 

But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they

divide the GBP20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

 

They realized that GBP20 divided by six is GBP3.33. But if they subtracted

that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would

each end up being paid to drink his beer.

 

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's

bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the

amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

 

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid GBP2 instead of GBP3 (33%savings).

The seventh now pay GBP5 instead of GBP7 (28%savings).

The eighth now paid GBP9 instead of GBP12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid GBP14 instead of GBP18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid GBP49 instead of GBP59 (16% savings).

 

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued

to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to

compare their savings.

 

'I only got a pound out of the GBP20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to

the tenth man,' but he got GBP10!'

 

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a pound, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's true!!'

 

shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get GBP10 back when I got only

two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

 

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get

anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

 

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

 

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat

down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,

they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money

between all of them for even half of the bill!

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is

how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the

most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for

being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they

might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat

friendlier.


And if you do, I for one am off!!

30/08/2012 12:38
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I received this email, if it's true I'd look after the penny's and watch the pounds look after themselves.

The British Government provides the following financial assistance:-

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

(bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and

National Insurance contributions to the British Government all their

working life)

Weekly allowance: £106.00?

IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

(No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever)

Weekly allowance: £250.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

Weekly Spouse Allowance: £25.00?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

Weekly Spouse Allowance: £225.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £0.00?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £100.00

A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal

immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT: £29,900

 

30/08/2012 12:16
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What a joke. You'd think the people who work harder, have good jobs and earn more money would be the ones better off but they aren't and its wrong. Instead of taxing hard working people more, why not stop letting every tom, dick and harry into the country to come and sponge and scrounge on benefits. Ridiculous. Why not make it less easy for people who have no intention of working to get job seekers. This country is just so stupid, no wonder everybody comes here!
30/08/2012 11:49
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why cant we just have a system where you have to put in to get out? I dont want a portion of my hard earned wages going to some woman having a load of children in a council house somewhere, it annoys me that by and large the people who put in arent the ones who get out.
30/08/2012 10:09
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Long ago when ABBA where at their prime they paid the national debt of Sweden voluntarily. Whilst I know this is unlikely to happen here how much greater would the great be. One thing is for certain that our politicians squander huge amounts of tax on inquiries, office furniture and decoration and a system that penalizes councils for being careful with their funds. If you don't spend the budget allowed your budget is decreased the following year, as with the MOD and all other departments. This leads to a waste of money at the end of the tax year in order to maintain the budget for the following year. NOT GOOD.
30/08/2012 13:16
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SAVE tax,how about stopping overseas aid,£280 million to india a country with a space programme, a army,navy,air force bigger than ours,and is a nuclear power.i understand they spent the money on armaments. cameron is giving away 12 billion a year in aid,charity begins at home how many british people could this have helped?

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Are we governed by total Idiots, all appear to have little Common Sense, they are supposed to have brains with the standard of education bought for them by there wealthy parentage, not one of them have done a days work in their lives, what do they know about trade let them have 5 years in the jungle of commercial trade before they spout off, as most people who have earned their money all say it was easier earning it but much harder trying to keep the tax man from taking it back .Fair play for all stop Golden Pensions for MP's, tax there pay at higher rate, Lower the ceiling on tax free expenses, then see what happens then. Yes do unto others but not to me. MP's on both sides are total rubbish! anyone agree have a vote results would be interesting 
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no it would not work all it would do is send them running for other shores ......

 

every one should pay the same about of tax like in australia the more you earn the more you pay but its only the same percentage ....

 

the tax system need to be changed for the better mor simplified and more answerable to the public WHO PAY IT.......

 

were are int he worst finacial times for over 100 years so why are we still sending billions and billions abroad in aid?

and why are we fighting wars that dont need to be fought......again billion after billions sorting other peoples door steps out....

 

charity begins at home .....AND THE HOUSE OF THE UK NEED SORTING OUT !

30/08/2012 13:30
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How about we start with a levy on the people who created the deficit in the first place....now lets see...Gordon Brown and Tony Blair....there certainly not short of the odd million earned from shafting the rest of us....and a few other members of the shadow cabinet I'm sure would be happy to make a contribution....and lets not forget the present incumbents...lets say a 20% levy on all the personal wealth of the cabinet I'm sure Mr Cameron won't mind for the greater good and all that...after all we are all in this together and then cap MP's expenses...and then we can all say leading by example!  
30/08/2012 09:19
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Sigh - Of course the population would support a 'rich tax' - that's because most of the population are not rich. It's the rich that invest money into the economy with their 'business loopholes' and etc. As a nation we are idiots, and don't even understand how the system works, but still vote on it??

We can't tax the rich, becuase they will just f..k off to another country. and/or find another loophole. Don't forget there is nothing 'illegal' about a tax loophole. Taking their billions with them..

30/08/2012 11:28
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what a load of hog wash. So the rich who create the jobs and investment are taxed more, so they all jump on a plane to switzerland and end up paying no tax here at all. make perfect sense, damn politicians havent got a clue.

 

lets stop taxing the working man, and get all the scroungers off of benefits and only have those that need it and/deserve it claiming. Benefits are there to help those in need to get back on their feet, its not supposed to be a life style choice.

30/08/2012 12:32
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Impose a super tax ..Close all tax loopholes Cancel all fat cat bonuses and scrap MPs expenses  Banks to pay back a set amount each month to the central pot.... No dole to the under 25s and nothing what so ever for immigrants ... this country would be back on its feet in 5 years .....
30/08/2012 10:21
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I am all for getting EVERYONE to pay there wack, but why should one section pay more when so many dont pay anything. We let every tom, dick, and harry come here to sponge off the state and get free allowances for this, that and the other. Its about time that this goverment started to look after the people who have worked their whole lives, paying into the system, only to find that when they need some help because they are out of work, or retired, ill,etc. there isnt enough to go round. Spend it more wisely and you wont have to go to one section of the community, whether rich, middle, or working people.
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The super-rich are super rich for a reason, just as the poor are poor for a reason.  If you try to over tax the super rich they'll simply go somewhere else.  Because guess what - they're super rich for  a reason.  i.e. they are usually quite smart!
30/08/2012 09:07
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I dont agree with this my dad earns good wages but he spends half the time out of the country working his n*ts to get paid what he does all for some government to take even more than what they do now the people they want to be targeting are the millionaires and multi millionaires not the guys on 100K, yes its a good wage but its comfortable living. Just to give it to some smack rat or lazy ba****d who hasn't done a decent days work in there lives its pathetic this government seriously needs to harden the f**k up and sort out all these scroungers it a joke to think what my tax goes on.

How much tax do you pay clegg?

30/08/2012 12:17
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its ok taxing the super rich,but why! it would help if the goverment would stop borrowing/giving our money to other countries,
30/08/2012 10:49
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Clegg isn't respected or trusted by anyone. So nobody will be listening to anything he has to say. On the subject of Tax, Murphy is right, just make the existing tax system work better and stop tax havens and major companies avoiding it.
30/08/2012 08:08
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Nick Clegg- your just an unknown voice- your an non identity-total waste of space. What you say, speck up boy we can't hear you! You puppet, catch yourself no and go play with your toys.
30/08/2012 12:33
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why not get rid of half of parliment first.they just waste money and feed their own pockets 
30/08/2012 15:06
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If we stopped giving billions upon billions away every year, there might be a bit more to spend on services at home. This government, thanks to Clegg and his Limp Dims, has doubled the size of the foreign aid budget at at time when every other department is facing major cuts. We borrow money in order to give it away but we can't afford police, soldiers or teachers. You couldn't make this stuff up.
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